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Dissidents freed in prisoner swap vow to keep up fight against Putin, recount details of release

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Dissidents freed in prisoner swap vow to keep up fight against Putin, recount details of release
News

News

Dissidents freed in prisoner swap vow to keep up fight against Putin, recount details of release

2024-08-03 05:50 Last Updated At:06:01

TALLINN, Estonia (AP) — When Kremlin critic Vladimir Kara-Murza was suddenly moved to a detention center in Moscow from a Siberian prison, he thought he was being taken there to be shot. Opposition activist Ilya Yashin said he was warned by a security operative that he would die in prison if he returned to Russia.

Neither was told they were being freed in a massive prisoner exchange with the West — the largest since the Cold War — when they were put on a bus to the airport Thursday, some still in prison garb.

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ADDS MORE INFORMATION ON RUSSIAN PRISONERS - Russian President Vladimir Putin, background second right, and Russian Foreign Intelligence Service chief Sergei Naryshkin, background left, walk behind two convicted Russian sleeper agents with their teenage children who were deported to Russia from Slovenia as part of a landmark prisoner exchange between the US and Russia on Thursday, Aug. 1, 2024. (Kirill Zykov, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)

ADDS MORE INFORMATION ON RUSSIAN PRISONERS - Russian President Vladimir Putin, background second right, and Russian Foreign Intelligence Service chief Sergei Naryshkin, background left, walk behind two convicted Russian sleeper agents with their teenage children who were deported to Russia from Slovenia as part of a landmark prisoner exchange between the US and Russia on Thursday, Aug. 1, 2024. (Kirill Zykov, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)

Freed Russian prisoner Andrei Pivovarov speaks during a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoner Andrei Pivovarov speaks during a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoner Ilya Yashin speaks during a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoner Ilya Yashin speaks during a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoner Vladimir Kara-Murza, speaks during a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoner Vladimir Kara-Murza, speaks during a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoners Ilya Yashin, from left, Andrei Pivovarov and Vladimir Kara-Murza, approach a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoners Ilya Yashin, from left, Andrei Pivovarov and Vladimir Kara-Murza, approach a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoners Ilya Yashin, from right, Andrei Pivovarov and Vladimir Kara-Murza, speak during a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoners Ilya Yashin, from right, Andrei Pivovarov and Vladimir Kara-Murza, speak during a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoners Ilya Yashin, Andrei Pivovarov and Vladimir Kara-Murza, from left, enter a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoners Ilya Yashin, Andrei Pivovarov and Vladimir Kara-Murza, from left, enter a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoners Ilya Yashin, Andrei Pivovarov and Vladimir Kara-Murza, from left, enter a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoners Ilya Yashin, Andrei Pivovarov and Vladimir Kara-Murza, from left, enter a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoners Ilya Yashin, Andrei Pivovarov and Vladimir Kara-Murza, from left, enter a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoners Ilya Yashin, Andrei Pivovarov and Vladimir Kara-Murza, from left, enter a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoners Ilya Yashin, Andrei Pivovarov and Vladimir Kara-Murza, from left, enter a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoners Ilya Yashin, Andrei Pivovarov and Vladimir Kara-Murza, from left, enter a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoners Ilya Yashin, Andrei Pivovarov and Vladimir Kara-Murza, from left, enter a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoners Ilya Yashin, Andrei Pivovarov and Vladimir Kara-Murza, from left, enter a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Russian President Vladimir Putin, right, speaks to released Russian prisoners upon their arrival at the Vnukovo government airport outside Moscow, Russia, on Thursday, Aug. 1, 2024. The United States and Russia have made their biggest prisoner swap in post-Soviet history. (Kirill Zykov, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)

Russian President Vladimir Putin, right, speaks to released Russian prisoners upon their arrival at the Vnukovo government airport outside Moscow, Russia, on Thursday, Aug. 1, 2024. The United States and Russia have made their biggest prisoner swap in post-Soviet history. (Kirill Zykov, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)

Russian President Vladimir Putin, background second right, and Russian Foreign Intelligence Service chief Sergei Naryshkin, background left, walk behind released Russian prisoners upon their arrival at the Vnukovo government airport outside Moscow, Russia, on Thursday, Aug. 1, 2024. The United States and Russia have made their biggest prisoner swap in post-Soviet history. (Kirill Zykov, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)

Russian President Vladimir Putin, background second right, and Russian Foreign Intelligence Service chief Sergei Naryshkin, background left, walk behind released Russian prisoners upon their arrival at the Vnukovo government airport outside Moscow, Russia, on Thursday, Aug. 1, 2024. The United States and Russia have made their biggest prisoner swap in post-Soviet history. (Kirill Zykov, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)

Russian President Vladimir Putin, second right, Federal Security Service (FSB) director Alexander Bortnikov, right, and Russian Foreign Intelligence Service chief Sergei Naryshkin, third left, greet freed Russian prisoners upon their arrival at Vnukovo government airport outside Moscow, Russia, Aug. 1, 2024. The United States and Russia have made their biggest prisoner swap in post-Soviet history. (Mikhail Voskresensky, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)

Russian President Vladimir Putin, second right, Federal Security Service (FSB) director Alexander Bortnikov, right, and Russian Foreign Intelligence Service chief Sergei Naryshkin, third left, greet freed Russian prisoners upon their arrival at Vnukovo government airport outside Moscow, Russia, Aug. 1, 2024. The United States and Russia have made their biggest prisoner swap in post-Soviet history. (Mikhail Voskresensky, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)

Russian President Vladimir Putin, right, greets Artyom Dultsev, left, upon arrival of freed Russian prisoners at Vnukovo government airport outside Moscow, Russia, Aug. 1, 2024. The United States and Russia have made their biggest prisoner swap in post-Soviet history. (Mikhail Voskresensky, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)

Russian President Vladimir Putin, right, greets Artyom Dultsev, left, upon arrival of freed Russian prisoners at Vnukovo government airport outside Moscow, Russia, Aug. 1, 2024. The United States and Russia have made their biggest prisoner swap in post-Soviet history. (Mikhail Voskresensky, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)

Vadim Krasikov, center, and other released Russian prisoners, step down from the plane upon their arrival at the Vnukovo government airport outside Moscow, Russia, on Thursday, Aug. 1, 2024. The United States and Russia have made their biggest prisoner swap in post-Soviet history. (Sergei Ilyin, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)

Vadim Krasikov, center, and other released Russian prisoners, step down from the plane upon their arrival at the Vnukovo government airport outside Moscow, Russia, on Thursday, Aug. 1, 2024. The United States and Russia have made their biggest prisoner swap in post-Soviet history. (Sergei Ilyin, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)

Russian President Vladimir Putin greets Vadim Krasikov upon arrival of freed Russian prisoners at Vnukovo government airport outside Moscow, Russia, Aug. 1, 2024. The United States and Russia have made their biggest prisoner swap in post-Soviet history. (Mikhail Voskresensky, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)

Russian President Vladimir Putin greets Vadim Krasikov upon arrival of freed Russian prisoners at Vnukovo government airport outside Moscow, Russia, Aug. 1, 2024. The United States and Russia have made their biggest prisoner swap in post-Soviet history. (Mikhail Voskresensky, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)

“It is very difficult to shake (the feeling) of absolute surrealism of what is happening,” Kara-Murza, a Pulitzer Prize-winning writer who had been serving 25 years in prison, told a news conference Friday in the German city of Bonn.

In their first public appearance since their release a day earlier, President Vladimir Putin's foes vowed to keep fighting for a free and democratic Russia they could one day return to.

They also talked about how their newly found freedom left a bittersweet aftertaste as they were effectively expelled from their own country, where hundreds of other political prisoners continued to languish behind bars.

“I’m not viewing what happened to me ... as an exchange. I’m viewing it as an expulsion from Russia, an illegal expulsion from Russia against my will. And I’ll say frankly, as it is: The thing I want the most right now is to go home,” said Yashin, who had been sentenced to 8 1/2 years for criticism of the Ukraine war.

He and Kara-Murza both told reporters no one asked them if they consented to the swap, and emphasized they refused to request a pardon from Putin — a formality they said prison officials had insisted upon.

Still, Kara-Murza stressed that such prisoner swaps are, in effect, “the saving of people's lives.” The death of Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny in an Arctic prison on February underscores that “very terribly,” he said.

Kara-Murza, Yashin and opposition figure Andre Pivovarov were among 16 prisoners that Russia and its ally Belarus released on Thursday — Americans, Germans and Russian dissidents, most of whom were imprisoned on charges widely seen as politically motivated.

The historic trade was in the works for months and unfolded despite relations between Washington and Moscow being at their lowest point since the Cold War after Putin’s February 2022 invasion of Ukraine. Those released included journalists Evan Gershkovich and Alsu Kurmasheva and former U.S. Marine Paul Whelan, who were greeted by their families and President Joe Biden when they arrived in Maryland on Thursday night.

Moscow in return got eight Russians jailed in the West for spying, hacking computers and even a brazen daylight murder. The Kremlin confirmed on Friday that some of them were its security and intelligence officers.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Friday that Vadim Krasikov, a Russian assassin who was serving a life sentence in Germany for the 2019 killing of a former Chechen fighter in a Berlin park, is an officer of the Federal Security Service, or FSB — a fact reported in the West even as Moscow denied state involvement.

He also said Krasikov once served in the FSB’s special forces Alpha unit, along with some of Putin’s bodyguards.

“Naturally, they also greeted each other yesterday when they saw each other,” Peskov said, underscoring Putin’s determination to include Krasikov in the swap. Earlier this year, Putin stopped short of identifying Krasikov, but referenced a “patriot” imprisoned in a “U.S.-allied country” for “liquidating a bandit” who had killed Russian soldiers during fighting in the Caucasus.

Peskov also confirmed that a couple released in Slovenia — Artem and Anna Dultsev — were undercover intelligence officers. Posing as Argentine expats, they used Ljubljana as their base since 2017 to relay Moscow's orders to other sleeper agents and were arrested on espionage charges in 2022.

Yashin said at the news conference in Bonn that “it is hard to realize that you have been released because a murderer has been released. It is difficult, it is very emotionally difficult."

It's also difficult, he said, because there are other Russians still behind bars.

Still, he vowed to continue the fight against Putin's rule — despite the risks.

“When we were flying with FSB officers to Ankara, one FSB officer turned to Vladimir and me and said: ‘Well, don’t get too carried away there, because Krasikov might come back for you,'" — a comment he said sent “chills” through his spine.

Kara-Murza and Pivovarov echoed Yashin's resolve.

“My friends and I will use all our strength so that our country could become free and democratic, and all those people who are behind bars are freed,“ said Pivovarov, who had been serving a four-year prison term.

Kara-Murza added that there are still “hundreds of people in prison solely for their political views, and more and more are on the lists of political prisoners.”

“These are our fellow citizens who, like all of us, oppose the cruel, criminal, aggressive war that the Putin regime unleashed against Ukraine,” he said.

The Nobel Peace Prize-winning human rights group Memorial said Friday that 766 people it has designated as political prisoners remain behind bars in Russia.

To supporters and relatives of those released, the swap also came as a surprise.

Pivovarov's wife, Tatyana Usmanova, told The Associated Press on Friday that when she learned he had disappeared from his prison in northern Russia, she imagined both bad and good outcomes.

She started to suspect a possible swap when reports appeared about other prisoners missing from their facilities, she said, but only felt “good and clear” about an exchange when she heard his voice on the phone Thursday, telling her to fly to Germany.

Artist and musician Sasha Skochilenko, convicted last year of an anti-war protest, disappeared Monday night from a detention center in St. Petersburg, her partner Sophya Subbotina said on Telegram. Subbotina told AP on Tuesday that “Sasha simply disappeared and we don't know where she is.” Prison officials said she probably was in Moscow.

Subbotina rushed to Moscow to check detentions centers but couldn't find Skochilenko, who finally called her on Thursday from Ankara, Turkey, where the swap took place. She said she had not known she was part of the exchange until it was underway, Subbotina added in remarks to the Russian news outlet Bumaga.

Oleg Orlov, the 71-year-old co-chair of the human rights group Memorial who was also released in the swap, called his wife, Tatyana Kasatkina, from Germany on Friday, and she said he “still hasn't processed that he ended up being so far from Russia,” the group quoted her as saying.

Orlov recounted to her that no one asked for his consent or explained why he was being moved from a detention center, and he only realized he was part of a swap when he got on a bus to the airport. According to Memorial, Orlov also didn't sign a request for presidential pardon.

ADDS MORE INFORMATION ON RUSSIAN PRISONERS - Russian President Vladimir Putin, background second right, and Russian Foreign Intelligence Service chief Sergei Naryshkin, background left, walk behind two convicted Russian sleeper agents with their teenage children who were deported to Russia from Slovenia as part of a landmark prisoner exchange between the US and Russia on Thursday, Aug. 1, 2024. (Kirill Zykov, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)

ADDS MORE INFORMATION ON RUSSIAN PRISONERS - Russian President Vladimir Putin, background second right, and Russian Foreign Intelligence Service chief Sergei Naryshkin, background left, walk behind two convicted Russian sleeper agents with their teenage children who were deported to Russia from Slovenia as part of a landmark prisoner exchange between the US and Russia on Thursday, Aug. 1, 2024. (Kirill Zykov, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)

Freed Russian prisoner Andrei Pivovarov speaks during a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoner Andrei Pivovarov speaks during a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoner Ilya Yashin speaks during a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoner Ilya Yashin speaks during a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoner Vladimir Kara-Murza, speaks during a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoner Vladimir Kara-Murza, speaks during a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoners Ilya Yashin, from left, Andrei Pivovarov and Vladimir Kara-Murza, approach a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoners Ilya Yashin, from left, Andrei Pivovarov and Vladimir Kara-Murza, approach a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoners Ilya Yashin, from right, Andrei Pivovarov and Vladimir Kara-Murza, speak during a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoners Ilya Yashin, from right, Andrei Pivovarov and Vladimir Kara-Murza, speak during a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoners Ilya Yashin, Andrei Pivovarov and Vladimir Kara-Murza, from left, enter a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoners Ilya Yashin, Andrei Pivovarov and Vladimir Kara-Murza, from left, enter a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoners Ilya Yashin, Andrei Pivovarov and Vladimir Kara-Murza, from left, enter a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoners Ilya Yashin, Andrei Pivovarov and Vladimir Kara-Murza, from left, enter a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoners Ilya Yashin, Andrei Pivovarov and Vladimir Kara-Murza, from left, enter a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoners Ilya Yashin, Andrei Pivovarov and Vladimir Kara-Murza, from left, enter a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoners Ilya Yashin, Andrei Pivovarov and Vladimir Kara-Murza, from left, enter a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoners Ilya Yashin, Andrei Pivovarov and Vladimir Kara-Murza, from left, enter a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoners Ilya Yashin, Andrei Pivovarov and Vladimir Kara-Murza, from left, enter a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Freed Russian prisoners Ilya Yashin, Andrei Pivovarov and Vladimir Kara-Murza, from left, enter a press conference in Bonn, Germany, Friday, Aug. 2, 2024, a day after they were released as part of a 24-person prisoner swap between Russia and the United States. (AP Photo/Michael Probst)

Russian President Vladimir Putin, right, speaks to released Russian prisoners upon their arrival at the Vnukovo government airport outside Moscow, Russia, on Thursday, Aug. 1, 2024. The United States and Russia have made their biggest prisoner swap in post-Soviet history. (Kirill Zykov, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)

Russian President Vladimir Putin, right, speaks to released Russian prisoners upon their arrival at the Vnukovo government airport outside Moscow, Russia, on Thursday, Aug. 1, 2024. The United States and Russia have made their biggest prisoner swap in post-Soviet history. (Kirill Zykov, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)

Russian President Vladimir Putin, background second right, and Russian Foreign Intelligence Service chief Sergei Naryshkin, background left, walk behind released Russian prisoners upon their arrival at the Vnukovo government airport outside Moscow, Russia, on Thursday, Aug. 1, 2024. The United States and Russia have made their biggest prisoner swap in post-Soviet history. (Kirill Zykov, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)

Russian President Vladimir Putin, background second right, and Russian Foreign Intelligence Service chief Sergei Naryshkin, background left, walk behind released Russian prisoners upon their arrival at the Vnukovo government airport outside Moscow, Russia, on Thursday, Aug. 1, 2024. The United States and Russia have made their biggest prisoner swap in post-Soviet history. (Kirill Zykov, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)

Russian President Vladimir Putin, second right, Federal Security Service (FSB) director Alexander Bortnikov, right, and Russian Foreign Intelligence Service chief Sergei Naryshkin, third left, greet freed Russian prisoners upon their arrival at Vnukovo government airport outside Moscow, Russia, Aug. 1, 2024. The United States and Russia have made their biggest prisoner swap in post-Soviet history. (Mikhail Voskresensky, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)

Russian President Vladimir Putin, second right, Federal Security Service (FSB) director Alexander Bortnikov, right, and Russian Foreign Intelligence Service chief Sergei Naryshkin, third left, greet freed Russian prisoners upon their arrival at Vnukovo government airport outside Moscow, Russia, Aug. 1, 2024. The United States and Russia have made their biggest prisoner swap in post-Soviet history. (Mikhail Voskresensky, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)

Russian President Vladimir Putin, right, greets Artyom Dultsev, left, upon arrival of freed Russian prisoners at Vnukovo government airport outside Moscow, Russia, Aug. 1, 2024. The United States and Russia have made their biggest prisoner swap in post-Soviet history. (Mikhail Voskresensky, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)

Russian President Vladimir Putin, right, greets Artyom Dultsev, left, upon arrival of freed Russian prisoners at Vnukovo government airport outside Moscow, Russia, Aug. 1, 2024. The United States and Russia have made their biggest prisoner swap in post-Soviet history. (Mikhail Voskresensky, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)

Vadim Krasikov, center, and other released Russian prisoners, step down from the plane upon their arrival at the Vnukovo government airport outside Moscow, Russia, on Thursday, Aug. 1, 2024. The United States and Russia have made their biggest prisoner swap in post-Soviet history. (Sergei Ilyin, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)

Vadim Krasikov, center, and other released Russian prisoners, step down from the plane upon their arrival at the Vnukovo government airport outside Moscow, Russia, on Thursday, Aug. 1, 2024. The United States and Russia have made their biggest prisoner swap in post-Soviet history. (Sergei Ilyin, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)

Russian President Vladimir Putin greets Vadim Krasikov upon arrival of freed Russian prisoners at Vnukovo government airport outside Moscow, Russia, Aug. 1, 2024. The United States and Russia have made their biggest prisoner swap in post-Soviet history. (Mikhail Voskresensky, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)

Russian President Vladimir Putin greets Vadim Krasikov upon arrival of freed Russian prisoners at Vnukovo government airport outside Moscow, Russia, Aug. 1, 2024. The United States and Russia have made their biggest prisoner swap in post-Soviet history. (Mikhail Voskresensky, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP)

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The Gulf of Whatnow? Mapmakers grapple with Trump's geographic renaming plans

2025-01-23 15:31 Last Updated At:15:40

What's in a name change, after all?

The water bordered by the Southern United States, Mexico and Cuba will be critical to shipping lanes and vacationers whether it’s called the Gulf of Mexico, as it has been for four centuries, or the Gulf of America, as President Donald Trump ordered this week. North America’s highest mountain peak will still loom above Alaska whether it’s called Mt. Denali, as ordered by former President Barack Obama in 2015, or changed back to Mt. McKinley as Trump also decreed.

But Trump's territorial assertions, in line with his “America First” worldview, sparked a round of rethinking by mapmakers and teachers, snark on social media and sarcasm by at least one other world leader. And though Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis put the Trumpian “Gulf of America” on an official document and some other gulf-adjacent states were considering doing the same, it was not clear how many others would follow Trump's lead.

Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum joked that if Trump went ahead with the renaming, her country would rename North America “Mexican America.” On Tuesday, she toned it down: “For us and for the entire world it will continue to be called the Gulf of Mexico.”

Map lines are inherently political. After all, they're representations of the places that are important to human beings — and those priorities can be delicate and contentious, even more so in a globalized world.

There’s no agreed-upon scheme to name boundaries and features across the Earth.

“Denali” is the mountain's preferred name for Alaska Natives, while “McKinley" is a tribute to President William McKinley, designated in the late 19th century by a gold prospector. China sees Taiwan as its own territory, and the countries surrounding what the United States calls the South China Sea have multiple names for the same body of water.

The Persian Gulf has been widely known by that name since the 16th century, although usage of “Gulf” and “Arabian Gulf” is dominant in many countries in the Middle East. The government of Iran — formerly Persia — threatened to sue Google in 2012 over the company’s decision not to label the body of water at all on its maps. Many Arab countries don’t recognize Israel and instead call it Palestine. And in many official releases, Israel calls the occupied West Bank by its biblical name, “Judea and Samaria.”

Americans and Mexicans diverge on what to call another key body of water, the river that forms the border between Texas and the Mexican states of Chihuahua, Coahuila, Nuevo Leon and Tamaulipas. Americans call it the Rio Grande; Mexicans call it the Rio Bravo.

Trump's executive order — titled “Restoring Names That Honor American Greatness” — concludes thusly: “It is in the national interest to promote the extraordinary heritage of our Nation and ensure future generations of American citizens celebrate the legacy of our American heroes. The naming of our national treasures, including breathtaking natural wonders and historic works of art, should honor the contributions of visionary and patriotic Americans in our Nation’s rich past.”

But what to call the gulf with the 3,700-mile coastline?

“It is, I suppose, an internationally recognized sea, but (to be honest), a situation like this has never come up before so I need to confirm the appropriate convention,” said Peter Bellerby, who said he was talking over the issue with the cartographers at his London company, Bellerby & Co. Globemakers. “If, for instance, he wanted to change the Atlantic Ocean to the American Ocean, we would probably just ignore it."

As of Wednesday night, map applications for Google and Apple still called the mountain and the gulf by their old names. Spokespersons for those platforms did not immediately respond to emailed questions.

A spokesperson for National Geographic, one of the most prominent map makers in the U.S., said this week that the company does not comment on individual cases and referred questions to a statement on its web site, which reads in part that it "strives to be apolitical, to consult multiple authoritative sources, and to make independent decisions based on extensive research.” National Geographic also has a policy of including explanatory notes for place names in dispute, citing as an example a body of water between Japan and the Korean peninsula, referred to as the Sea of Japan by the Japanese and the East Sea by Koreans.

In discussion on social media, one thread noted that the Sears Tower in Chicago was renamed the Willis Tower in 2009, though it's still commonly known by its original moniker. Pennsylvania's capital, Harrisburg, renamed its Market Street to Martin Luther King Boulevard and then switched back to Market Street several years later — with loud complaints both times. In 2017, New York's Tappan Zee Bridge was renamed for the late Gov. Mario Cuomo to great controversy. The new name appears on maps, but “no one calls it that,” noted another user.

“Are we going to start teaching this as the name of the body of water?” asked one Reddit poster on Tuesday.

“I guess you can tell students that SOME PEOPLE want to rename this body of water the Gulf of America, but everyone else in the world calls it the Gulf of Mexico,” came one answer. “Cover all your bases — they know the reality-based name, but also the wannabe name as well.”

Wrote another user: “I'll call it the Gulf of America when I'm forced to call the Tappan Zee the Mario Cuomo Bridge, which is to say never.”

FILE - President Donald Trump speaks in the Roosevelt Room of the White House, Tuesday, Jan. 21, 2025, in Washington. (AP Photo/Julia Demaree Nikhinson, File)

FILE - President Donald Trump speaks in the Roosevelt Room of the White House, Tuesday, Jan. 21, 2025, in Washington. (AP Photo/Julia Demaree Nikhinson, File)

FILE - Peter Bellerby, the founder of Bellerby & Co. Globemakers, holds a globe at a studio in London, Tuesday, Feb. 27, 2024. (AP Photo/Kin Cheung, File)

FILE - Peter Bellerby, the founder of Bellerby & Co. Globemakers, holds a globe at a studio in London, Tuesday, Feb. 27, 2024. (AP Photo/Kin Cheung, File)

FILE - A boat is seen on the Susitna River near Talkeetna, Alaska, on Sunday, June 13, 2021, with Denali in the background. Denali, the tallest mountain on the North American continent, is located about 60 miles northwest of Talkeetna. (AP Photo/Mark Thiessen, File)

FILE - A boat is seen on the Susitna River near Talkeetna, Alaska, on Sunday, June 13, 2021, with Denali in the background. Denali, the tallest mountain on the North American continent, is located about 60 miles northwest of Talkeetna. (AP Photo/Mark Thiessen, File)

FILE - The water in the Gulf of Mexico appears bluer than usual off of East Beach, Saturday, June 24, 2023, in Galveston, Texas. (Jill Karnicki/Houston Chronicle via AP, File)

FILE - The water in the Gulf of Mexico appears bluer than usual off of East Beach, Saturday, June 24, 2023, in Galveston, Texas. (Jill Karnicki/Houston Chronicle via AP, File)

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