By moving to podcasts, Harris and Trump are turning away from legacy media to spread their messages

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By moving to podcasts, Harris and Trump are turning away from legacy media to spread their messages

2024-10-24 12:04 Last Updated At：12:10

NEW YORK (AP) — Among the legacy news outlets that have come up empty in their efforts to interview Kamala Harris and Donald Trump during the general election campaign: NPR, The New York Times, PBS and The Washington Post.

Yet Harris chose to meet with Alex Cooper for her “Call Her Daddy” podcast and talk a little Bay Area basketball with the fellows on “All the Smoke.” Trump rejected “60 Minutes,” but has hung out with the bros on the “Bussin' With the Boys” and “Flagrant.”

During this truncated campaign, some of the traditional giants of journalism are being pushed aside. The growing popularity of podcasts and their ability to help candidates in a tight race target a specific sliver of the electorate is a big reason why.

There are certainly exceptions. Harris spoke to NBC News' Hallie Jackson on Tuesday and held a CNN town hall on Wednesday. But political columnist John Heilemann of Puck noticed what he called “an ancient, dying beast railing against the diminishment of its status and stature in the new world.”

“The campaigns have their structures and their media plans are very carefully thought through, even if we don't agree with them,” said Sara Just, senior executive producer of the PBS “NewsHour.” “Obviously, we hope they will do long, probing interviews with PBS.”

Journalists consider that an important service. Said Eric Marrapodi, vice president for news programming at NPR: “I think Americans deserve to hear the candidates have their ideas challenged."

That sounds like a campaign staff's worst nightmare, infinite opportunities for their candidates to trip up and have an unplanned story dominate the news cycle. And to what end? Most legacy news organizations don't have the reach they used to, and their audience skews old.

For half a century, a “60 Minutes” interview near the election was considered a key stop for presidential candidates. But Trump shunned broadcast television's most influential news show this year, and has criticized the way its interview with Harris was edited.

The former president has stuck largely to what he perceives as friendly venues with direct access to his base audience, and continually feeds interviews to Fox News Channel despite grumbling he doesn't find the network loyal enough. Indeed, Fox has also proven important to the Democratic ticket, which believes that appearing on its shows demonstrates willingness to deal with a hostile environment.

Harris' interview with Bret Baier was so contentious that it became fodder for a “Saturday Night Live” parody. After her running mate, Tim Walz, was interviewed by Shannon Bream on “Fox News Sunday” earlier this month, the campaign sought and received a return engagement the next week.

“I was a little surprised,” Bream admitted to Walz. “What's that about?”

In general, television networks don't have the audience they once did. CNN, for example, reached 1.24 million viewers per evening during the third quarter of 2016, when Trump first ran, and 924,000 this year, according to the Nielsen company. Broadcast networks are so named for their ability to reach a broad audience; sometimes candidates need that, often they don't.

The picture is more dire at newspapers, which collectively boasted 37.8 million in Sunday circulation in 2016 and dropped to 20.9 million by 2022, the Pew Research Center said. Candidates once submitted to tough interviews with newspaper editorial boards in the hope of winning an endorsement; now many newspapers don't even bother making that choice.

For years, candidates have been able to target advertising messages with great specificity — a swing state, even competitive cities, for example. The media now offers more opportunities to micro-message in the same way. Eager to shore up support among Black men, Harris appeared on Charlamagne Tha God's influential radio program — CNN and MSNBC even simulcast it — and was interviewed by MSNBC's Al Sharpton.

“The View” and Stephen Colbert's “Late Show,” where Harris has appeared, enabled her to talk to people less inclined to follow the news.

Few outlets offer the opportunity to zero in on an audience better than podcasts, which have essentially doubled in listenership since 2016.

The format is narrowcasting at its finest, said Andy Bowers, co-founder of the on-demand audio company Spooler Media. People who listen to podcasts often feel an intense loyalty to their favorites, almost like they're part of a club of people with similar traits and interests — and a candidate has been invited into that club for a day.

“You're talking to a specific audience with a specific bent and frame of mind,” said Tom Bettag, a University of Maryland journalism professor. “That's very helpful to somebody who is trying to avoid saying the wrong thing at the wrong time.”

For her interview with Alex Cooper on “Call Her Daddy,” Harris appeared on the most popular podcast for women. They discussed abortion, and one of Cooper's questions sounded like a grooved pitch: “What do you think of Trump saying he will be a protector of women?”

On the “Flagrant” podcast, hosts asked questions about Trump's children and how he felt during his assassination attempt. Host Akaash Singh interrupted Trump at one point to compliment him on how he raised his children.

“I think I like this interview,” Trump said. His appearance on the podcast, one of several efforts he has made to reach young men, has been seen by nearly 5.5 million people on YouTube alone.

Issues come up during these discussions, often mixed with the personal. On “All the Smoke,” the hosts began by asking Harris about the blind date where she met her husband.

Certainly not everyone is writing an obituary for traditional journalists and their coverage of campaigns. “I don't view it as a big break that takes away from legacy media,” said Rick Klein, ABC's Washington bureau chief. ABC's opportunity to question the candidates came in the most public of forums, when the network hosted the only debate between Harris and Trump.

Of the 10 sources of campaign news with the most views on TikTok over the past 60 days, six were legacy news outlets, according to Zelf, a social video analytics company. They were ABC News, CNN, NBC News, MSNBC, Univision and the Daily Mail.

For a strong news organization, there's also a lot more that goes into covering a presidential campaign than sit-down interviews with candidates.

“I don't think journalists should worry too much about access journalism,” said Mark Lukasiewicz, dean of the Hofstra University School of Communication and a former NBC News producer. “We should do journalism.”

David Halbfinger, political editor of The New York Times, cautioned against drawing too many conclusions based on a campaign that was unusually short due to Harris' late entrance into the race. The Times has followed the campaign aggressively with trend stories, investigations and spot news coverage.

“It's hard to know what the lessons will be,” Halbfinger said. “For a long time, candidates have tried to go around the news media. One way or another, the mainstream media does its job so I don't know how effective that strategy is. But it will be an interesting case study someday to see.”

David Bauder writes about media for the AP. Follow him at http://x.com/dbauder.

Boeing factory workers vote to reject contract and continue 6-week strike

2024-10-24 11:55 Last Updated At：12:00

SEATTLE (AP) — Boeing factory workers voted Wednesday to reject the company’s latest contract offer and to continue a six-week strike that has halted production of the aerospace giant’s bestselling jetliners.

Local union leaders in Seattle said 64% of members of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers who cast ballots voted against accepting the proposal.

“After 10 years of sacrifices, we still have ground to make up, and we’re hopeful to do so by resuming negotiations promptly,” Jon Holden, the head of the IAM District 751 union, said in a statement Wednesday evening. “This is workplace democracy — and also clear evidence that there are consequences when a company mistreats its workers year after year."

A spokesperson for Boeing said officials didn’t have a comment on the vote.

The labor standoff comes during an already challenging year for Boeing, which became the focus of multiple federal investigations after a door panel blew off a 737 Max plane during an Alaska Airlines flight in January.

The strike has deprived the company of much-needed cash that it gets from delivering new planes to airlines. On Wednesday, the company reported a third-quarter loss of more than $6 billion.

Union machinists assemble the 737 Max, Boeing’s best-selling airliner, along with the 777 or “triple-seven” jet and the 767 cargo plane at factories in Renton and Everett, Washington.

The offer rejected Wednesday included pay raises of 35% over four years. The version that union members rejected when they voted to strike last month featured a 25% increase over four years.

The union, which initially demanded 40% pay boosts over three years, said the annual raises in the revised offer would total 39.8%, when compounded.

Boeing has said that average annual pay for machinists is currently $75,608.

Boeing workers told Associated Press reporters that a sticking point was the company’s refusal to restore a traditional pension plan that was frozen a decade ago.

“The pension should have been the top priority. We all said that was our top priority, along with wage,” Larry Best, a customer-quality coordinator with 38 years at Boeing, said on a picket line outside a Boeing factory in Everett, Washington. “Now is the prime opportunity in a prime time to get our pension back, and we all need to stay out and dig our heels in.”

Theresa Pound, a 16-year Boeing veteran, also voted against the deal. She said the health plan has gotten worse, with higher premiums and more out-of-pocket expenses, and her expected pension benefits would not be enough, even when combined with a 401(k) retirement account.

“I have put more time in this place than I was ever required to. I have literally blood, sweat and tears from working at this company,” the 37-year-old said. “I’m looking at working until I’m 70 because I have this possibility that I might not get to retire based on what’s happening in the market.”

The strike, which began Sept. 13, has served as an early test for Boeing CEO Kelly Ortberg, who became chief executive in August.

In his first remarks to investors, Ortberg said earlier Wednesday that Boeing needs “a fundamental culture change,” and he laid out his plan to revive the aerospace giant after years of heavy losses and damage to its reputation.

Ortberg repeated in a message to employees and on the earnings call that he wants to “reset” management’s relationship with labor “so we don’t become so disconnected in the future.” He said company leaders need to spend more time on factory floors to know what is going on and “prevent the festering of issues and work better together to identify, fix, and understand root cause.”

Ortberg, a Boeing outsider who previously ran Rockwell Collins, a maker of avionics and flight controls for airline and military planes, said Boeing is at a crossroads.

“The trust in our company has eroded. We’re saddled with too much debt. We’ve had serious lapses in our performance across the company, which have disappointed many of our customers,” he said.

But Ortberg also highlighted the company’s strengths, including a backlog of airplane orders valued at a half-trillion dollars.

“It will take time to return Boeing to its former legacy, but with the right focus and culture, we can be an iconic company and aerospace leader once again,” he said.

In recent weeks, Ortberg announced large-scale layoffs — about 17,000 people — and a plan to raise enough cash to avoid a bankruptcy filing.

Boeing hasn’t had a profitable year since 2018, and Wednesday’s numbers represented the second-worst quarter in the manufacturer’s history. Boeing lost $6.17 billion in the period ended Sept. 30, with an adjusted loss of $10.44 per share. Analysts polled by Zacks Investment Research had expected a loss of $10.34 per share.

Revenue totaled $17.84 billion, matching Wall Street estimates.

The company burned nearly $2 billion in cash, in the quarter, weakening its balance sheet, which is loaded down with $58 billion in debt. Chief Financial Officer Brian West said the company will not generate positive cash flow until the second half of next year.

Shares of The Boeing Co. fell 2% in regular trading Wednesday.

Boeing’s fortunes soured after two of its 737 Max jetliners crashed in October 2018 and March 2019, killing 346 people. Safety concerns were renewed this January, when a panel blew off a Max during an Alaska Airlines flight.

Ortberg needs to convince federal regulators that Boeing is fixing its safety culture and is ready to boost production of the 737 Max — a crucial step to bring in much-needed cash. That can’t happen, however, until the striking workers return to their jobs.

Early in the strike, Boeing made what it termed its “best and final” offer. The proposal included pay raises of 30% over four years, and angered union leaders because the company announced it to the striking workers through the media and set a short ratification deadline.

Boeing backed down and gave the union more time. However, many workers maintained the offer still wasn’t good enough. The company withdrew the proposed contract on Oct. 9 after negotiations broke down, and the two sides announced the latest proposal on Saturday.

Charles Fromong, a mechanic who has worked at Boeing for 38 years, said Wednesday night after the results were announced that the company needs to take care of its workers.

“I feel sorry for the young people,” he said. “I’ve spent my life here and I’m getting ready to go, but they deserve a pension and I deserve an increase.”

The last Boeing strike, in 2008, lasted eight weeks and cost the company about $100 million daily in deferred revenue. A 1995 strike lasted 10 weeks.

Koenig reported from Dallas. Lindsey Wasson in Everett, Washington, contributed to this report.

By moving to podcasts, Harris and Trump are turning away from legacy media to spread their messages

ENT

By moving to podcasts, Harris and Trump are turning away from legacy media to spread their messages

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