There's conscious uncoupling and then there's conscious collaborating. Exes and TV personalities Tarek El Moussa and Christina Haack have reunited for a new reality competition show, “The Flip Off,” on HGTV.
El Moussa and Haack (then known as Christina Hall) were first introduced to viewers in 2013 as married co-stars of the HGTV series “Flip or Flop," which aired for 10 seasons. When their marriage ended in 2017, they continued to film together — with some tension — until the series finale in 2022.
Click to Gallery
Christina Haack poses for a portrait to promote "The Flip Off" on Tuesday, Jan. 28, 2025, in Los Angeles. (Photo by Rebecca Cabage/Invision/AP)
Christina Haack poses for a portrait to promote "The Flip Off" on Tuesday, Jan. 28, 2025, in Los Angeles. (Photo by Rebecca Cabage/Invision/AP)
Heather El Moussa poses for a portrait to promote "The Flip Off" on Tuesday, Jan. 28, 2025, in Los Angeles. (Photo by Rebecca Cabage/Invision/AP)
Heather El Moussa poses for a portrait to promote "The Flip Off" on Tuesday, Jan. 28, 2025, in Los Angeles. (Photo by Rebecca Cabage/Invision/AP)
Tarek El Moussa poses for a portrait to promote "The Flip Off" on Tuesday, Jan. 28, 2025, in Los Angeles. (Photo by Rebecca Cabage/Invision/AP)
Tarek El Moussa poses for a portrait to promote "The Flip Off" on Tuesday, Jan. 28, 2025, in Los Angeles. (Photo by Rebecca Cabage/Invision/AP)
Heather El Moussa, from left, Tarek El Moussa and Christina Haack pose for a portrait to promote "The Flip Off" on Tuesday, Jan. 28, 2025, in Los Angeles. (Photo by Rebecca Cabage/Invision/AP)
Heather El Moussa, from left, Tarek El Moussa and Christina Haack pose for a portrait to promote "The Flip Off" on Tuesday, Jan. 28, 2025, in Los Angeles. (Photo by Rebecca Cabage/Invision/AP)
Now, El Moussa has teamed with his new wife, Heather Rae El Moussa, a real estate agent also known for Netflix's “Selling Sunset,” to compete against Haack on “The Flip Off.” Each side scouts a house to buy, redo and sell. One room is tackled at a time and is critiqued by a guest judge. In the end, the winner with the larger flip profit gets a paid vacation and bragging rights.
“There might have been some spying. Like, ‘How is she designing? What is she doing? How much should we spend? Is she really not spending a lot of money?’" says Heather El Moussa.
All three real estate agents are also co-producers on “The Flip Off,” which airs Wednesdays at 8 p.m. ET/PT, and “we all knew it was going to be TV gold,” says Haack.
The series has had some drama on screen and off. Haack began filming with her now estranged husband, Josh Hall, as her teammate. The two split shortly thereafter and some of their tension is visible on “The Flip Off.” When Hall exited, Haack was joined by friends she's worked with behind-the-scenes on projects. Her second ex-husband, TV personality Ant Antstead, even makes an appearance.
The El Moussas and Haack spoke with The Associated Press about the show and working together. Answers are edited for clarity and brevity.
HEATHER EL MOUSSA: I came into a lot of chaos when I first met this man because they were filming “Flip or Flop.” One day they like each other, the next day they don’t, so it was a lot for me to take on... But it’s been such a great relationship that we’ve all built, and especially Christina and I throughout this.
HAACK: Tarek and I both have a very quick bounce-back effect. We could be in an argument, but then the cameras would be rolling and we can create a great scene and be over it. I like making good TV. I think it’s fun.
HAACK: The biggest amount of pressure is trying to out-design each other. Normally with a house flip, you’re just designing it for the neighborhood and you know, you can paint or knock down some walls, but like you’re not trying to overdo it. During the process, we got so competitive with each other, we definitely all overspent.
TAREK EL MOUSSA: I’ve learned a lot of lessons through experience. You know, I’ve done about 1,000 deals at this point. And every time you make a mistake, every time you lose a dollar, every time you get burned, it’s a lesson. And you keep stacking those lessons. I am so excited about the future because all those lessons are paying off.
HEATHER EL MOUSSA: He always says to keep the emotion out of it because I think you can get so stuck on when things go wrong with a flip. In the beginning, I would be so mad if one thing went wrong. Tarek's like, “You have to move on. You can’t dwell on the small things. Take emotion out of the flip."
Alicia Rancilio covers entertainment for the AP.
Christina Haack poses for a portrait to promote "The Flip Off" on Tuesday, Jan. 28, 2025, in Los Angeles. (Photo by Rebecca Cabage/Invision/AP)
Christina Haack poses for a portrait to promote "The Flip Off" on Tuesday, Jan. 28, 2025, in Los Angeles. (Photo by Rebecca Cabage/Invision/AP)
Heather El Moussa poses for a portrait to promote "The Flip Off" on Tuesday, Jan. 28, 2025, in Los Angeles. (Photo by Rebecca Cabage/Invision/AP)
Heather El Moussa poses for a portrait to promote "The Flip Off" on Tuesday, Jan. 28, 2025, in Los Angeles. (Photo by Rebecca Cabage/Invision/AP)
Tarek El Moussa poses for a portrait to promote "The Flip Off" on Tuesday, Jan. 28, 2025, in Los Angeles. (Photo by Rebecca Cabage/Invision/AP)
Tarek El Moussa poses for a portrait to promote "The Flip Off" on Tuesday, Jan. 28, 2025, in Los Angeles. (Photo by Rebecca Cabage/Invision/AP)
Heather El Moussa, from left, Tarek El Moussa and Christina Haack pose for a portrait to promote "The Flip Off" on Tuesday, Jan. 28, 2025, in Los Angeles. (Photo by Rebecca Cabage/Invision/AP)
Heather El Moussa, from left, Tarek El Moussa and Christina Haack pose for a portrait to promote "The Flip Off" on Tuesday, Jan. 28, 2025, in Los Angeles. (Photo by Rebecca Cabage/Invision/AP)
ANTALYA, Turkey (AP) — NATO foreign ministers on Thursday debated an American demand to massively ramp up defense investment as the United States focuses on security challenges outside of Europe.
At talks in Antalya, Turkey, NATO Secretary-General Mark Rutte said more investment and military equipment are needed to deal with threats posed by Russia and terrorism but also by China, which has become the focus of U.S. concern.
“When it comes to the core defense spending, we need to do much, much more,” Rutte told reporters. He underlined that once Russia's war in Ukraine is over, Moscow could reconstitute its armed forces within three years to five years.
U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio said “the alliance is only as strong as its weakest link.” He insisted that the U.S. demand for allies to invest 5% of their gross domestic product on defense over the next seven years is about “spending money on the capabilities that are needed for the threats of the 21st century.”
The debate on defense spending is heating up before the summit of President Donald Trump and his NATO counterparts in the Netherlands on June 24-25. That gathering will set the course for future European security, including that of Ukraine.
In Istanbul, Russian and Ukrainian delegations will hold their first direct peace talks in three years, though the timing is unclear. Russian President Vladimir Putin spurned Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s offer to meet face to face in Turkey this week. Trump had pressed for Putin and Zelenskyy to meet but brushed off Putin's decision to skip.
Meantime, Rubio, who is due in Istanbul on Friday, met with Syrian Foreign Minister Assad al-Shaibani on the sidelines of NATO meeting as Damascus seeks to reintegrate into the Mideast and beyond.
The NATO sessions focused on a new spending plan in the works. As Russia’s war on Ukraine entered its second year, NATO leaders agreed in 2023 to spend at least 2% of gross domestic product on national defense budgets. So far, 22 of the 32 member countries have done so.
The new plan is for all allies to aim for 3.5% of GDP on their defense budgets by 2032, plus an extra 1.5% on potentially defense-related things like infrastructure — roads, bridges, airports and seaports.
While the two figures add up to 5%, factoring in infrastructure and cybersecurity would change the basis on which NATO traditionally calculates defense spending. The seven-year time frame is also short by the alliance’s usual standards.
Rutte refused to confirm the numbers but acknowledged the importance of including infrastructure.
It’s difficult to see how many members would reach a new 3.5% goal. Belgium, Canada, Croatia, Italy, Luxembourg, Montenegro, Portugal, Slovenia and Spain are not even spending 2% yet, though Spain expects to reach that goal this year, a year past the deadline.
The U.S. demand would require investment at an unprecedented scale. But Trump has cast doubt over whether the U.S. would defend allies that spend too little — an incentive to do more, even as European allies realize that they must match the threat posed by Russia.
Europe-wide, industry leaders and experts have pointed out challenges the continent must overcome to be a truly self-sufficient military power, chiefly its decades-long reliance on the U.S. as well as its fragmented defense industry.
“There is a lot at stake for us,” Lithuanian Foreign Minister Kęstutis Budrys said. He urged NATO partners to meet the investment goals faster than the 2032 target "because we see the tempo and the speed, how Russia generates its forces now as we speak.”
British Foreign Secretary David Lammy said his country should reach 2.5% by 2027, and then 3% by the next U.K. elections planned for 2029.
“It’s hugely important that we recommit to Europe’s defense and that we step up alongside our U.S. partners in this challenging geopolitical moment where there are so many precious across the world, and particularly in the Indo-Pacific,” he said.
As an organization, NATO plays no direct security role in Asia, and it's unclear what demands the Trump administration might make of the allies as it turns its attention to China. The last NATO security operation outside the Euro-Atlantic area, its 18-year stay in Afghanistan, ended in chaos.
Asked whether the next summit communique will underline that Russia still poses the greatest threat to NATO allies, Rutte said, "We will see what is the best way to play that.”
Questions also hang over the way the leaders will frame NATO's commitment to Ukraine. The war has dominated recent summits, with envoys struggling to find language that would further anchor the country to the alliance without actually allowing it to join.
But this year, Washington has taken Ukraine's membership off the table. Trump has shown impatience with Zelenskyy and remains unclear whether the Ukrainian leader will be invited to the June meeting in The Hague.
Cook reported from Brussels, and Fraser from Ankara, Turkey.
NATO foreign ministers gather during a NATO's informal meeting of foreign ministers in Antalya, southern Turkey, Thursday, May 15, 2025. (AP Photo/Khalil Hamra)
United States Secretary of State Marco Rubio, right, talks to British Foreign Secretary David Lammy during an informal meeting of NATO's foreign ministers in Antalya, southern Turkey, Thursday, May 15, 2025. (AP Photo/Khalil Hamra)
NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte attends a news conference at a NATO's informal meeting of foreign ministers in Antalya, southern Turkey, Thursday, May 15, 2025. (AP Photo/Khalil Hamra)
NATO Secretary-General Mark Rutte, right, talks to Luxembourg's Foreign Minister Xavier Bettel as they arrive for a group photo during a NATO's informal meeting of foreign ministers in Antalya, southern Turkey, Thursday, May 15, 2025. (AP Photo/Khalil Hamra)
Turkey's Foreign Minister Hakan Fidan, center, talks to British Foreign Secretary David Lammy, right, next to Germany's Foreign Minister Johann Wadephul, left, as they wait for a group photo during a NATO's informal meeting of foreign ministers in Antalya, southern Turkey, Thursday, May 15, 2025. (AP Photo/Khalil Hamra)
NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte talks to journalists as he arrives for a NATO's informal meeting of foreign ministers in Antalya, southern Turkey, Thursday, May 15, 2025. (AP Photo/Khalil Hamra)
British Foreign Secretary David Lammy talks to journalists as he arrives for a NATO's informal meeting of foreign ministers in Antalya, southern Turkey, Thursday, May 15, 2025. (AP Photo/Khalil Hamra)
NATO foreign ministers pose for a group photo during their informal meeting in Antalya, southern Turkey, Thursday, May 15, 2025. (AP Photo/Khalil Hamra)
Turkey's Foreign Minister Hakan Fidan talks to journalists as he arrives for a NATO's informal meeting of foreign ministers in Antalya, southern Turkey, Thursday, May 15, 2025. (AP Photo/Khalil Hamra)
United States Secretary of State Marco Rubio, right, talks to British Foreign Secretary David Lammy during an informal meeting of NATO's foreign ministers in Antalya, southern Turkey, Thursday, May 15, 2025. (AP Photo/Khalil Hamra)
NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte talks to journalists as he arrives for NATO's informal meeting of foreign ministers in Antalya, southern Turkey, Thursday, May 15, 2025. (AP Photo/Khalil Hamra)
Russian President Vladimir Putin speaks during a joint press statement with Malaysian Prime Minister Anwar Ibrahim at the Kremlin in Moscow, Russia, Wednesday, May 14, 2025. (Alexander Nemenov/Pool Photo via AP)
Secretary of State Marco Rubio departs a lunch between President Donald Trump and Qatar's Emir Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani at the Amiri Diwan in Doha, Qatar, Wednesday, May 14, 2025. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)
